Milwaukee Tool recently showed off their new M18 FORGE battery technology, and it’s going to be a game-changer.
We had been expecting to see new Milwaukee M18 batteries with Li-ion pouch cells. And, that’s exactly what we have, with this new XC 6Ah battery. But, that’s not what Forge is about – Milwaukee Forge is bigger than that.
In Milwaukee’s words, REDLITHIUM FORGE increases the capabilities of the M18 and MX FUEL systems, providing the most power, the fastest charging, and the longest life without sacrificing compatibility.
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Milwaukee’s M18 Forge XC 6Ah Battery
Milwaukee’s first M18 RedLithium Forge battery will be an XC 6Ah battery, featuring upgrades all-around.
To start off, the Forge XC 6Ah has upgraded plastic construction that is resistant to common oils, greases, and solvents.
The built-in charge level fuel gauge is all-new, not only for improved durability but easier visibility in sunlight.
The M18 Forge battery also has a new ingress coating that provides increased protection against the weather and jobsite conditions. Weep holes at the bottom give water a place to drain out of.
A similar ingress coating has been applied to the also-new MX Fuel Forge battery packs.
The XC 6Ah battery will feature pouch-style Li-ion battery cells.
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You will not see this emphasized – or even mentioned in most product or sales pages – because Forge will encompass multiple battery technologies.
An upcoming Forge 12Ah battery pack, which was only touched upon, will feature tabless cylindrical cells – similar to the ones used in Milwaukee’s next-generation MX Fuel batteries.
Why this is a Major Turning Point
In the past 15 years or so, there have been just two major generational upgrades with respect to cordless power tool batteries.
First, brands shifted over from NiCad and NiMH to Lithium-ion. Improvements followed, such as in charge capacity and tolerance to cold temperatures.
For several years, tool brands introduced higher capacity batteries until a practical limit was reached with 18V 5Ah batteries. Some brands do offer 6Ah batteries built with the same technologies, but with diminished benefits.
In 2015, Milwaukee announced a new M18 High Demand battery with 50% higher cell count. Until then, most cordless power tools had 5 or 10 Li-ion cells. With the M18 HD 9Ah battery, Milwaukee went to 15 cells.
In 2018, Milwaukee launched their High Output line of batteries.
Milwaukee’s M18 High Output batteries were built using larger Li-ion cells that delivered more power and higher charge capacities. This led to a new generation of higher powered tools that users could operate for longer.
While the M18 HD batteries bumped things up a step, the HO batteries took things to new levels.
FORGE is going to do that again.
What happened every time Milwaukee introduced new battery technologies? New and higher powered and more demanding cordless power tools followed. You can be sure the same will be true here.
Other cordless power tool makers have also introduced new battery technologies, and I’m sure they’re not done yet. Competition is sure to drive innovation across the industry.
What does Milwaukee M18 Forge Mean for You?
With this new Forge XC 6Ah battery, you get:
- High Output 12Ah Power in a Smaller Size
- 15 minute charge to 80% with the new SuperCharger
- Longest life compared to earlier battery technologies
The new XC 6Ah battery – with its pouch-cell Li-ion battery technology – is 30% smaller and 40% lighter than the High Output HD 12Ah battery.
With High Output 12Ah-equivalent power delivery, this means that you can use the new M18 Forge XC 6Ah battery in more demanding tools with less arm fatigue – and without worrying about a potential drop in performance or the tool bogging down.
With new dual-port SuperCharger the Forge 6Ah battery can recharge to 80% in just 15 minutes (when charged at room temperature), and 100% in 25 minutes.
Milwaukee says that the new Forge 6Ah battery delivers “the longest life of any battery on the M18 system” while maintaining full system compatibility.
How Forge Compares
Milwaukee’s M18 batteries all fit into one of three categories – RedLithium, RedLithium High Output, and RedLithium Forge.
As mentioned, the Forge family batteries will deliver the most power, fastest charging, and longest life.
Milwaukee is also describing their batteries according to a new Power Scale:
- PWR 1
- PWR 2 (XC 5Ah)
- PWR 3 (XC 6Ah)
- PWR 4 (HD 12Ah, Forge XC 6Ah)
Power 1 likely includes compact batteries, like the CP 2.0 battery. Power 2 includes the XC 5Ah, and from what has said in the past, the compact HO batteries, such as the CP 3Ah and 4Ah batteries. Power 3 includes the HO XC batteries, such as 6Ah and 8Ah, and the now-discontinued HD 9Ah battery. Power 4 includes the HD HO 12Ah battery and the new Forge XC 6Ah.
This seems like a simplified way to categorize all of Milwaukee’s M18 batteries. I wonder if a similar system will be used to categorize their tools as well, so that users can always know which tools and ideally paired with different batteries.
It’s worth reminding readers that all Milwaukee M18 batteries fit all M18 cordless power tools.
I have used lower power and capacity batteries on heavier duty tools, and they’ll work for many tasks, but differences will become apparent during demanding tasks. Similarly, the highest capacity battery – the HO 12Ah – is not an ideal fit for more compact tools, with respect to size, weight, and balance.
That’s one of the reasons the new Forge XC 6Ah battery is so exciting – it delivers 12Ah power, but in a smaller and lighter package. It won’t match the runtime of the 12Ah battery, of course, but there are a lot of times when size and weight are higher priorities.
And with the new faster charging speed, you can back to work rather speedily.
Questions?
This is not first time that we have seen improvements in power deliver and features without an increase in charge capacity. Similar happened when compact High Output 3Ah and 4Ah batteries matched the power delivery and charge capacities of older 3Ah and 4Ah batteries.
We’ve only touched the surface here. I made it a point to learn as much as I could about the the Forge tech. While this post focuses on the M18 battery advancements, Forge tech will be coming to the MX Fuel line as well.
Let me know if you have any questions, and I will try my best to answer them.
EC
Wow!
This might warrant a shift in brand loyalty.
J R
Not until Milwaukee tool start to last longer, I’ve had 2 impacts, 2 multitools, 2 grinders, a Sawzall, an orbital sander, a 23ga pin nailer, and a hammer drill break on me. A couple 8ah batteries stop holding charge for more than 5 minutes of use also. Yet I have a corded Sawzall, hole hog and circular saw that are all over 40 years old and work perfectly.
Franco Calcagni
Funny…I haven’t had many power tool failures, but the ones that did fail, were all Milwaukee.
MFC
Anything with a brushless motor is asking for trouble. I’ve had Milwaukee and DeWalt as my primary tools and I’ve had so many brushless motors fail after a year or two. Like you I’ve got old drills, sidewinders and table saws that are still running decades later, but these brushless motors and/or pcbs can’t handle the heat and dirt of a jobsite.
Pat
Been using milwaukee professionally for 8 years now and have never had a tool fail I have had some bad batteries but never a tool issue maybe I have been lucky hope it stays that way
MFC
All this HO battery stuff is rather misleading. I owned the Milwaukee 9″ cut off, chainsaw, and sds max drill.
They were all fine tools, but my 12ah batteries would overheat very quickly when using them for more than 10 minutes. I also have dewalt flexvolt tools and the batteries were considerably cooler. Never a problem with overheating.
They can pull higher and higher loads with battery technology, but they need to figure out how to cool them better or it’s useless. I sold all of my milwaukee tools and went purely with dewalt because I could rely on flexvolt tools to keep operating over longer periods of time.
Also, out of the two 12ah M18 batteries I had, one died within 2 years (got it replaced under warranty but they sent me an old 12ah that was obviously refurbished). I have 8 flexvolt batteries and I have had 2 die under warranty with them too, so it seems that any kind of high demand usage is going to kill big batteries. If they can create batteries that will last for 10+ years, then that will be something to boast about. As it stands, my oldest battery is a 5ah dewalt 20v battery and it’s about 7 years old, but the rest haven’t made it (milwaukee, ryobi, dewalt). I’m sure there are others with older batteries, but I’m talking about daily usage and 1000+ charge cycles.
Franco Calcagni
The M18 12ah, while not notorious, definitely has had higher instances of problems, probably more than any battery currently available.
I know on the Torque Test Channel, they have stated that Makita LXT batteries have had issues, higher than average for them. Some just stop working within a year or two.
I found this interesting as they are very unbiased, and also quality channel, very informative. I have had about 30 LXT batteries, a couple of 1.5’s, the rest are 3, 4 & 5 ah batteries. I use a paint pen to mark the month and year I got them and some are 10, some 12 and a couple 15 years old. These older ones hold a charge, probably in the 80% or better as I often don’t realize I am using an older battery.
Makita never advanced LXT battery tech that much, but in a sense, they didn’t need to. All their tools work great with their 3 to 5 ah batteries, last very long (for me), and rather than going with 8-12 ah, they just went 2×18 when the tool required the extra oomf.
I have regular Dewalt as well as FV, but have not owned them as long, maybe oldest being 6-7 years old, but work fine so far.
I have M18 2, 4, 6, and 8 ah, all with no issues, but also being maybe 6-7 years old.
My M12’s, these have been great. I have somewhere in the 15 to 20 batteries and these, like my Makita, I have some from 2010, 2012; all have worked great.
I have been pretty lucky with batteries. The one failure I have had was a few years ago, a 3 ah LXT and it was 7 years old at the time.
MFC
Interesting numbers. What do you do with your batteries (work wise) and what climate are you in? It would be interesting to create a multiple question poll that went over details like: How many batteries do you have? Which brands and what ahs? How many battery failures have you had, over what amount of time? How often is each battery used? Etc.
It sounds like you have enough batteries to cycle them slowly unless you’re running a crew with all of those. I will typically go through 3-8 batteries in a day depending on what I’m doing, so mine get used a lot, but then they’re also stored outside in a trailer most of the time and that trailer temp is probably hovering around 100 degrees F. on any given day through most of mid spring-late fall (Texas). Obviously cooling tech won’t do any good when it’s just sitting there baking in my trailer, but when I’ve tested the surface temps of my batteries after using them they typically hover above that temp anyways.
Anyways, hope you get this and can respond to what level of use yours are typically getting.
Franco Calcagni
OK, first off, I am not in the trades, or make a living off my tools. Since 2015, I have been on medical leave, so “retired”.
Climate, I am half way between Montreal and Ottawa, in Canada, so pretty much the opposite from your Texas heat.
I definitely do not use 3-8 batteries a day. More like at least 1, sometime 3-4.
On days when I have help for larger projects I have, I can use a dozen or more…but this happens once every 2 months. Keep in mind also that my battery usage is usually across different platforms.
I am anal about things like my batteries after having had issues with NiCads and NiMh years ago. With these I usually mark the month and year I got it, using a Sharpie or paint pen. I always charge and then put it on a shelf space, where it goes in the back of the line and no battery gets forgotten.
I have lots of Ryobi tools and batteries, used mainly by my wife for her artisanal “hobby/business”, but I manage the batteries for her.
Any platform I have, I always try to by a radio, flashlight or small hand vac, especially for a platform I have few tools and the batteries can get used infrequently. Between the radios, flashlight and vacs, I try to make sure no battery sits unused.
I have always used my tools as often as possible, just because I like to, but having moved into a very, very old house 4 years ago, I have projects till the “end of days”.
Right now re-doing the kitchen when the weather is not great and a carport for my tractor when it is nice. Fixing up my main workshop, when I get a chance, redoing shingles on my sheds, garage and house.
I definitely have the time to work on stuff, unfortunately, after a few medical procedures, working 3-5 hours in a day is all I can muster.
So, overall, your usage is definitely more than mine. But what you say about a poll, that would be very interesting. Actually, over on Garage Journal, I was part of the members that put together the vise spreadsheet. Something like a poll (definitely easier) or spreadsheet would be interesting, but also a lot of work keeping updated.
Anyway, all the info, as good or interesting as it can be, still won’t take into account usage by individual. I understand you being in a trade and having your batteries in a trailer…comes with the territory. Me, I am probably a bit more meticulous than the average user, and others might be even more careful than me. Conversely, I know for sure (I have friends that do this) that many don’t take care of their batteries. Some will charge and use, and again charge and use the same 2-3 batteries, and then grab 1 at the bottom of a tool box a year later and find it does not perform as well as the others.
I have friends which I tell them they are “brain lazy” because they will do the dumbest things with their batteries, just because they won’t take a minute to do things right. When something goes wrong, it’s the MFR’s crappy batteries at fault.
Anyway, that is most of my battery story. Overall, especially when I look back at the NiCad/NiMh days, I have had pretty good luck with my Lithium batteries.
Collin
Balancing 15 cells, like in a 12.0, is a nightmare. Problem is compounded by the fact the 12.0 is used in high power draw tools a lot of times. It’s hard to keep 15 cells consistently healthy. One bad cell is enough to tank the pack and cause issues like it only charging to 3 bars.
Collin
I basically think of it as:
P(bad 21700 cell) = x
P(good 21700 cell) = 1-x
If there’s 15 cells, then probability of all 15 being good cells is:
(1-x)^15
Let’s say x = 0.01 or 1%
Therefore probability of a good cell is 99%
But the probability of 15 good cells together in a 12.0 is 0.99^15 which is only 86%!!! Pretty low!
Robert
I didn’t see pricing for forge in any of the last few articles. Once known, it would be interesting to have a AH vs dollar chart for the 4 PWR groups. Not all applications need the highest power and fastest recharge times.
Stuart
Sorry – I’m still recovering from the Pipeline event, and there’s a lot to work through.
The new Forge XC 6Ah battery has a $199 MSRP.
The existing HO XC 6Ah battery has a current street price of $179. The existing HO XC 6Ah battery has a current street price of $199. The HO HD 12Ah battery has a street price of $249.
We don’t yet know what kinds of pricing incentives there could be to drive adoption of the Forge batteries.
When Dewalt launched their compact PowerStack battery, aggressive promotions convinced a lot of tool users (myself included) to be early adopters. Milwaukee would be wise to do similar.
Robert
No, I wasn’t assigning blame. I figured Milwaukee may have deliberately not mentioned the high prices yet to keep focus on the technological excitement.
Stuart
I took it in a good way. It’s something I could and maybe should have talked about here.
I learned not to waste time jotting down prices at media events because either i) they can change if the launch is too far away, or ii) the launch is relatively close and pricing will be in the media kit that immediately follows the event.
In this case, the price is set in preorder listings, I just hadn’t went that far yet.
There’s still so much info to unpack and share. I wanted to start discussing FORGE first, as it is one of the more complex topics. I also think we’re going to see it emphasized in marketing, and so I wanted to ensure readers had a good understanding before that.
Jared
With Dewalt’s Powerstack, the pouch cell packs also outlast comparable-sized cylindrical cell batteries, at least in high-draw applications. They’re better able to cope with fast discharge rates and waste less energy as heat.
Because there might be applications were the 6ah Forge pack outlasts a higher capacity battery, that might frustrate a direct Ah/$ calculation – albeit maybe not in the situations you’re thinking where the tool doesn’t need the extra power.
TomD
That recharge time is a game changer- more so than the power output, really.
Michael F
Agreed. That’s the big news here to me. A full 108 watt-hours in that amount of time is huge. With a dual charger it means you should be able to work continuously for most applications.
Lex
This is what got me… crazy
Tucker
Any word on smaller a 2 or 3 Ah version? Powerstack showed what is possible with a very compact but high output battery. Nice using tools with a smaller/lighter battery.
Stuart
Not yet, and I didn’t ask. There’s only so much time, and I wanted to ensure I thoroughly understood the engineering behind both new battery technologies.
I will make it a point to ask when I follow up with more questions.
I think that a compact option is something we will see, it’s just a matter of *when*.
Satnam
How about sorting out the runtime of some of their tools. Some just chew through batteries.
Adam
Any rumor of a compact Forge battery? Not that one would pick a brand based on a battery, but would be nice to see a compact battery similar to the Dewalt Powerstack. I find myself using a 3ah HO for a majority of tools. An impact wrench is heavy enough as it is, so I’ll put the lightest battery on that makes sense.
Did you get to use an existing tools with new & existing batteries? Such as a sawzall or chainsaw, where the user might feel more of a difference in use.
What kind of benefits to charge time for HO batteries on the new charger?
Stuart
There were a couple of demos, but with limited time I asked questions and sought insights. Test samples will be available, and so I’ll be able to do comparative testing on my own.
With the new Super Charger, there’s no benefit when charging to 100%, as it matches the 60 minutes as with the single bay Super Charger.
It does have a neat adaptive charging feature that can divert power one way and then the other. That’s going to be very interesting to test.
As I said in my comment to Tucker, there was no mention of a compact battery yet.
Chip
So I was excited thinking this had the CAPACITY of a 12ahr battery.
Quote “The new XC 6Ah battery – with its pouch-cell Li-ion battery technology – is 30% smaller and 40% lighter than the High Output HD 12Ah battery.
So in reality it’s about the same size,or even a bit larger and heavier…but charges 300% faster.
I prefer to spend less $ on older larger (but, buy more of them) for capacity, spend less in chargers (slow charging at night).
Force $250 for new charger,and say two batteries at $200 each.
I now have $650 into two 6’s that charge quickly ,and have 12ahr of capacity.
Or I can slow charge eight 6’s =48ahrs….or three 12’s =48 ahr for the same price.
Obviously a sliding scale ,with more batteries the charger is less of a price factor.
I shop very frugally for tools,I pay $200 for a 12, $180 per 8,$150 for two 6’s,and $120 for a pair of 3’s.
Am very happy with the ability for higher amperage tools, I just prefer to have more and cheaper batteries….vs less and carry a charger to work.
Batteries are expensive, I carry eight m18, twelve Makita 18v,ten m12,and four 12v batteries..and charge at night.
Jared r
Until this is the next big thing and your batteries start fading away until your batteries become extinct. Unless you wanna buy them from someone on eBay at an insane price. Oh wait! I mean for nothing on eBay because they won’t be worth squat. Who wants to spend anything on used batteries that could die at any minute? Just saying. Then you’ll be forced into buying a better technology for less money. Isn’t capitalism awesome!! Bring on the new tech high priced batteries. Supply and demand man. Ditch the H.O. and go pro. Brings prices down for everyone. Yaaaaaay!!!
Stuart
If you don’t need new batteries, don’t buy new batteries.
I spent a bit of money gearing up for the event because I know what hassles I typically encounter, and I’d rather spend my time taking photos, doing interviews, and checking out tools, than to juggle batteries, swap out memory cards, or hunt down a place to recharge anything. For last year’s events, I upgraded my lens to a second-generation model that provided weight savings, and a mic than cut out environmental noise as much as possible.
If you are not going to benefit from upgrading to a new battery, don’t. Wait until the expenditure makes sense.
Not everyone needs the latest and greatest.
Ct451t
“30% smaller, 40% lighter” and 50% runtime…
Very imaginative marketing.
The benefits of the extra power will go unnoticed in most of their popular tools.
D3t
That’s what I’m thinking. If it was the same as the 12AH, it would be called the Forge XC 12.0.
Jason Rolfe
Will the new forge batteries work with existing 18v ho xc tools? And also will the new charger work with the older batteries?
Stuart
Yes to both.
Steve
So why go with the “XC” moniker? The “HD” – high demand batteries were the best, why not put that on there or not even put a sub name on them? This seems confusing to me.
It appears this battery is a bit bigger and heavier than the 5.0 battery, which is a shame. They do need a smaller sized one. This probably compares to the 8.0 in terms of physical size and weight, although I haven’t checked that. I’m interested in some comparisons, but I have to say I’m skeptical at this point…
Big Richard
The CP/XC/HD refers to the batteries capacity, not power output, relative to other packs. It was previously about cell count, regardless of whether they were 18650 or 21700 cells.
CP – 5 cells
XC – 10 cells
HD – 15 cells
But the new FORGE 6.0 looks like it is only using 5 cells, so that nomenclature no longer works. I suppose since the existing HO 6.0 is an XC size and not going away (yet), it only made sense to call this a XC.
Stuart
E*x*tended *c*apacity.
Maybe for consistency? The terminology made sense to me.
The XC part seems to best describe approximate size, with the new power levels more clearly describing power output.
Jay
Are Milwaukee planning on making HD Forge batteries in the future? Perhaps with tabless cells.
Stuart
Yes. 12Ah is coming next year, with tabless cells.
Big Richard
Yes, a HD 12.0 FORGE battery will be out the second half of 2024. It will use tabless cells instead of the pouch cells that the XC 6.0 uses.
JR Ramos
Are there any whisperings about a pouch-flavored M12 battery? It could totally be done in the current XC package footprint and seems like it should give a significant boost over what they have now…could even layer it a bit thicker. Might affect tool balance slightly without few ounces of weight in the male-pokey-stick part that inserts into the handles.
Big Richard
They had a patent for a XC pack that had the standard 3 18650 cells in the male-pokey-stick part, but used 21700 cells in the base/foot. They could do something similar with pouch cells, with or without the 18650s in the male-pokey-stick part. No idea if that is just a patent or something they are actually working on.
Stuart
Patents are novel ideas a company wishes to protect if pursued. It’s no guarantee they actually will.
JR Ramos
That just seems like a really bad idea to combine 18650 and 21700, assuming they are working at the same time. Maybe that could have worked better with some of the earliest 21700 cells available but now, just about anything tool-worthy would have a serious imbalance. Interesting that they considered that approach though! Maybe it was an attempt to head off at the pass any aftermarket entrepreneurs.
Stuart
Not at this time.
I spent a lot of time talking with their battery engineers. They’re exploring a lot of different options, and it’s unclear to me what the next M12 battery developments might look like.
JR Ramos
They’ll probably look like M18. lol.
Thanks, Stuart.
Tony
Does the new m18 forge also have the cool cycle technolgy ive seen in the milwaukee page that it does but i dont see no vents for it only the weep holes for water
Stuart
No, it does not.
It does have the same ingress protection as the MX Fuel battery packs, but not the cool cycle tech.
DC
Perfect timing, several of my M18 Red Lithiums are not holding a charge so for new batteries.
Franco Calcagni
You have Makita and Dewalt that came out with other solutions; Makita 2×18 and Dewalt with Flexvolt.
Milwaukee, having made the decision a while ago to stick with the M18 battery form factor, for sure, they will have the most R&D in trying to pack more punch in the form factor.
I find this good, but also surprised as Dewalt is doing well with their pouch batteries; Milwaukee should have had a vested interest in coming out with this sooner.
Makita just abandoned the battery pack evolution, going with the XGT platform and having 2×18 when called for.
I think Milwaukee should consider themselves lucky that there are so many that will buy red, no matter what. They were very late (last) to have fan cooled chargers. Also, fast chargers, how exciting! Everyone else has had fast chargers for years.
Everyone likes to trash on Makita. In 2008 when I bought my first LXT tools, they had the same chargers they have today, which cooled batteries with a fan, and charged fast…and remain among the fastest chargers out there, 15 tears later.
Milwaukee is still slowly catching up, but when they come out with something new (for them, not the industry), its like, WOW.
Let’s go team red!
Big Richard
Milwaukee seems to have (finally) accepted that 2xM18 is still needed in certain tools, if anything just for runtime. It’s awesome that the new FORGE 6.0 can match the HO 12.0’s 1800 W power output, but it can only do it for 3.6 minutes. They now have 5 2xM18 tools, and I expect more in the future. That snow blower may need to be 4xM18.
Stuart
Why would you think they’re late to have fast chargers?
Their Super Charger came out 4 years ago, and their Rapid Charger years before that.
https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-m18-super-charger/
I cannot find my news post about the Rapid Charger, but the multi-port model came out more than 8 years ago.
https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-rapid-charging-station/
This new charger takes the new 6Ah charger to 80% in 15 minutes. That’s what, 4.8Ah charge capacity?
If you think that’s “slowly catching up,” I don’t know what to tell you.
It’s okay to be critical, but try to fact-check and be well-informed about what you’re complaining about.
Franco Calcagni
By late, I was not referring to the new charger. This new charger is top notch, like many vehicle chargers that rapidly charge up to 80%. I do not follow all the tools out there, but this charger would probably be the fastest out there.
I don’t have facts, I am going from what I remember. Milwaukee was very slow, compared to others, in getting faster chargers. And I don’t recall which, but first the came out with “fast” in a new charger. They also added a fan, but which came first…not sure. And late to the game compared to Makita.
This is your domain, so you tell me; when did Makita come out with LXT? 2005, maybe earlier? M18 started around 2008? How many years did they go with their standard slow charger with no fan? If I recall, their first “rapid” charger, still was not as fast as a DC18RC.
I am just stating my opinion. That being that Milwaukee took forever to get a charger to cool and charge faster than Makita’s charger that is over 20 years old…so to me, that is late.
And every time that Milwaukee makes ANY kind of improvement, even if it is just better than what THEY had, but not up to snuff with others…it’s like they invented the wheel.
James Cutts
Don’t forget Hikoki (Metabo HPT) I’ve a handful of there dual 18/36v batteries and the odd tool and they have been fantastic, offering up the more powerful 36v while keeping the same form factor and compatibility with the 18v line.
The big downside for me is a lot of their gear is old 18v tech that’s been around for ever, or it’s new 18/36v gear but very expensive compared to everyone else.
James Herron
I am curious if these new batteries will help the M18 Cutoff saw with its lack of power or run time.
Big Richard
Not likely. Power is still largely determined by the tool, so if that saw asks for 1800 W, that is what it is going to get. Should arguably maintain that power level better though. They would need to come out with a new saw that is specifically designed take advantage of higher current rates of these more powerful batteries to truly make the saw more powerful. Just like today’s HO batteries can provide some boost in non-HO tools, but it is not making them exponentially more powerful.
Run time needs high capacity batteries. For example, the current HO 12.0 can put out ~1800 W, so can the new FORGE 6.0. But the 6.0 has half the capacity (108 Wh vs. 216 Wh), so it is going to have half the runtime. The yet-to-be-released FORGE 12.0 will likely be able to put out more power, but still have the same 216 Wh capacity. It can make that power more efficiently due to lower resistance and less heat loss, so theoretically it should last a little bit longer than the current HO 12.0.
Bobcat
To me the whole purpose of stack pouch cells is a smaller battery with more power it seems to me the 6amp forge battery is the same size as the current ho 6amp battery and it’s not that much more powerful they say 50% more which is a crock of shit it’s more like 15 to 20% more power because that’s what the current 12amp battery is compared to the HO 6amp battery and red lithium there’s no such thing Boltr prove that when he opened the milfuvky battery
Stuart
Why would you think pouch cells should be smaller? The Dewalt PowerStack 5Ah isn’t smaller than their cylindrical cell 5Ah battery.
Where does Milwaukee say that the 12Ah is 50% more powerful than the old 6Ah? I don’t believe I’ve seen this.
It has 50% more Li-ion cells, but that doesn’t automatically mean 50% more powerful. The cells in XC HO 6Ah and HD HO 12Ah batteries are different, which also plays a part in performance and endurance.
Even here, the Forge 6Ah battery is said to be as powerful as the 12Ah, but they don’t quantify it.
You can’t measure battery performance by doing a teardown and looking under the hood.
Bence
You can actually estimate performance by a teardown.
All these marketing materials suggest that Milwaukee, DeWalt l, etc are some juggernauts in the battery industry. What they really do is buy the cells from large manufacturers and package them up. I don’t know about these new pouch cells, but all the cylindrical ones are from samsung, lg etc.
These cells have a technical spec sheet with their max current draw, continuos and and intermittent. You can calculate what lets say Samsung has measured in their labs and just work out the cell configuration to get a power rating.
50 % more cells should theoretically be 50% higher power output if the same cells are used. The 12 ah pack probably has higher capacity, but lower rated cells, as it usually goes. The same reason why most 6ah batteries have worse power handling than the same size, same cell count 5 ah batteries, like the Makita packs.
Pouch cells should take up less space because they are rectangular. Cylindrical cells leave quite a bit of space between cells.
I think it’s great that pouch cells are coming to power tools.
They have been around in radio controlled models for over a decade, they have some insane power ratings, and can be charged incredibly fast. I always wondered how a small hobby got brushless motors and lipo batteries many years before our cordless tools.
kent_skinner
Looks interesting for tools that draw high current for short bursts. I’d put one on a big impact gun, but not a chainsaw.
Mike (the other one)
Good to see them catching up to DeWalt after two years.
Good Tools
I think the pouch cell needs more space, bigger than the same size 6Ah, or 5Ah with round cells?
I don’t own Milwaukee cordless tools, but I’m really happy with batteries and tools from another brand = compact batteries, quality cells, durability.
JoeM
Am I allowed to just care that Milwaukee is going Pouch-Cell, and be happy they’re making a high-quality product? Do I have to care as deeply about the rest? I mean, if the two major companies, DeWALT and Milwaukee, are both going this direction, doesn’t that conclude that this level of battery standard is beneficial to everyone? For those nay-sayers over the PowerStack from DeWALT, complaining it’s “Yet another battery system from DeWALT” isn’t this proof that it’s not about the company releasing it, it’s about the advancement in power requirements across the board?
It’s really kinda crazy that DeWALT gets flack for advancing their Batteries so often, but when Millwaukee comes to the same conclusions and releases their own takes on it… Milwaukee is ravenously praised for it. How about dropping the brand loyalty and names entirely, and looking at the advancement being made here. Look at what this means for the industry. I see it as a great thing. That Milwaukee and DeWALT have taken the lead in this, is just proof that this is where things are going for all of us. Regardless of what system you use, this is where we’re going with it.
Franco Calcagni
“It’s really kinda crazy that DeWALT gets flack for advancing their Batteries so often, but when Millwaukee comes to the same conclusions and releases their own takes on it… Milwaukee is ravenously praised for it”….hmm. You can change Dewalt to any other name and your statement still rings true.
Chris
Because paid social media shills make it that way… I’m guessing Milwaukee spends millions every year paying people for their good word and to push products for them on social media. Like these pipeline events are totally free trips, one of the only companies to do it. They steadily send out free products. They are a marketing company. Always been like that, no matter what
Robert
Don’t disagree on Milwaukee being marketing hounds. But to be fair, Dewalt/Black and Decker Stanley are no slouches either. From the begining BDS bought Dewalt mainly for the name, not for a market in radial arm saws.
Bigdawg
To me this is just proof that DeWalt is still the cutting edge company and Milwaukee (TTI) is still playing catch up. They launched Power stack a year or so ago and Milwaukee tried to hate on it all while realizing it was an awesome game changer like DeWalt did in Flexvolt.
Stuart
Milwaukee has been working on these battery technologies for a while.
They had pouch cells under test in their battery lab last June (14 months ago), and it seems they went with the same supplier for their Forge XC 6Ah batteries. Dewalt’s PowerStack 5Ah battery was not yet announced or out at that time.
Cordless power tool tech is going in very different directions right now, and at different paces. It’s too early for any brand to be playing catch-up.
glen weitzdoerfer
Will the forger batteries have a tougher case to withstand drops?
Stuart
They should be just as durable in this regard; power tool brands know how much tools and batteries tend to be dropped, and design for that.
Alexu
If the body chemistry( plastic case) has not been improved they will continue to crack when old in half leaving the battery in two pieces , got 2 batteries wrapped up in electrical tape to the guns to continue using them!
Stuart
As mentioned, the plastic housing has also been upgraded for greater chemical resistance. That could help, depending on why your batteries have been cracking.
Dominic S
Let’s hope this brings down the price of the High Output batteries. I need a few more! ha.
Aaron
Why on earth haven’t they included onekey in their batteries?! Don’t get me wrong, it’s great having it on some of the tools but what has a higher likelihood of walking off a jobsite? A large drill with likely easily identifiable scratches and use characteristics or a battery or 3 that look like every other battery sitting around?
Stuart
Because most tool users wouldn’t pay the premium for it?
Aaron
I feel like old milwaukee tools won’t last on the new battery’s pushing more amps and higher output on lower voltage will create more heat thats just facts dewalt and makita use higher voltage and have better heat management built-in to there flex volt 60v and XGT 40v and 80v tools.
I have milwaukee 18v tools and have had a battery fail within a year and have had there drills and impact driver overheat. I also don’t like there saws much compared to other brands
I’m starting to replace my 18v tools with makita 40v XGT because the cooling is much better on all the tools in that line
I do think the milwaukee MX fule platform will be good with the new batteries the plate compactor and power trowel look to be worth it with new large battery.